Geography

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Date: Tue, 21 Feb 1995 16:20:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: MCDANIEL@HOOVER.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Placenames, 18th century settlement source

An excellent source for placenames in Banat and Backa/Batschka, among other places, is:

Vollständigstes geographisch-topographische-statistisches Orts-lexikon von Deutschland, sowie der unter Osterreichs und Preussens Botmassigkeit stehen den nichtdeutschen Läander.

Edited by H. Rudolph, the Ortslexikon had several editions or printings in the 1860s and 1870s. I have access to the 1868 edition in the Stanford library.

The Ortslexikon is over 5000 pages listing place names in all German-speaking territory, including lands governed by Austria and Prussia in the 1860s. If a place had a non-German name, it's listed, too.

I have previously posted an offer to roots-l and soc.genealogy.german to look up place names in the Ortslexikon. I would like to repeat that offer here.

For Banat/Batschka places that ended up in Vojvodina, there is another source which provides the current Serbo-Croatian name:

Geografsko-istorijski imenik naselja Vojvodine za period od 1853. godine do danas Milica Markovic. Novi Sad, 1966. (Historical geographic register of inhabited places of Vojvodina from 1853 to the present.) This lists German, Hungarian and Serbo-Croatian forms of place names. I also have access to this.

On a different topic, I also have access, and am willing to look up names (within reason) in:

Quellen zur deutschen Siedlungsgeschichte in Süudosteruopa bearbeitet von Franz Wilhelm und Josef Kallbrunner. München : E. Reinhardt, 1935? This is a publication with index of the lists of settlers sent by the Austrian government to Banat and Batschka in the 18th century (1730s to 1803), and gives (for some lists) the number of people accompanying the settler, his occupation, and his place of origin.

Gordon McDaniel
mcdaniel@hoover.stanford.edu
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Date: Fri, 24 Feb 95 17:51:04 EST
From: "Michael D. Stamm" stamm@texas.net
To: Kurt Baudendistel
Subject: GEOGRAPHY: Pannonia

Per Atlas Of The Roman World (Cornell & Matthews)

Pannonia (two provinces: Pannonia Superior and Pannonia Inferior
North: Danube River
East: Danube River
South: A line from what is now Trieste to just south of what is now Belgrade
West: A line from east of what is now Trieste to just west of present Vienna

No province named Carpathia--must be a Latinization of the Carpathian Mountains

The area between the Danube/Donau and Tisa/Tisza/Theiss was a no-man's land. Dacia started east of the Tisa.

Regards,
Michael Stamm
(stamm@texas.net)
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 15:47:15
From: madler@sierra.net
Subject: Hungary County Names

Sorry these are minus diacritical markings--or if I made a typo somewhere! Martha provides this plus a wonderful county map of Hungary with each order. She is working with the full cooperation of the Mormons. One would need to contact her for her reasons why she feels a typewriter is preferable to a PC for her particular requirements. Do chide and correct me on any errors noted :-).

County Names of Hungary - Before World War 1

1. Abauj - Torna
2. Also - Feher
3. Arad
4. Arva
5. Bacs-Bodrog
6. Baranya
7. Bars
8. Bekes
9. Belovar Koros
10. Berog
11. Beszterce Naszod
12. Bihir
13. Borsod
14. Brasso
15. Csanad
16. Csik
17. Csongrad
18. Esztergom
19. Fejer
20. Foraras
21. Gomor
22. Gyor
23. Hajdu
24. Haromszek
25. Heves
26. Hont
27. Hunyad
28. Jasz Nagy Kun Szolnok
29. Krasso - Szoreny
30. Kis - Kulullo
31. Kolzos
32. Komarom
33. Lika - Korbava
34. Lipto
35. Maramaros
36. Maros Torda
37. Modrus - Fiume
38. Moson
39. Nagy - Kukullo
40. Nograd
41. Nyitra
42. Pest-Pilis-Solt-Kiskun
43. Pozsega
44. Pozsony
45. Saros
46. Somogy
47. Sopron
48. Szabolcs
49. Szatmar
50. Szerben
51. Szepes
52. Szerem
53. Szilagy
54. Szolnok - Doboka
55. Temes
56. Tolna
57. Torda - Aranyos
58. Torontal
59. Trencsen
60. Turoc
61. Udvarhely
62. Ugocsa
63. Ung
64. Varasd
65. Vas
66. Veroce
67. Veszprem
68. Zagreb
69. Zala
70. Zemplem
71. Zolyom

Bob Madler If it works it's obsolete :-)
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Date: Thu, 16 Mar 1995 16:18:46
From: MCDANIEL@HOOVER.STANFORD.EDU
Subject: Maps

Many of you probably already have atlases and maps showing the counties of your interest, but I'll post this anyway.

An excellent reference work in general is:

Historical Atlas of East Central Europe / Paul Robert Magocsi. -- Seattle, London : University of Washington Press, 1993.

In particular, there is a map showing location and general boundaries of all counties between 1867 and 1918. These counties came into being in 1867 when in the Ausgleich the Habsburg Empire essentially split into two main administrative units, Hungary and Austria (didn't have that name then, but was commonly called that).

The Stanford map library has a 1918 map of Hungary, 1:500,000 scale, showing all county boundaries. I've copied for myself the section which includes Banat counties (Torontal, Temes, Krasso-Szoreny). If anyone wishes, I could copy the entire map (in sections) and provide copies at cost.

Sometime soon I plan to take the time to look for 1:100,000 and 1:25,000 scale maps. The library has many, but I'm not sure of the coverage.

Gordon
mcdaniel@hoover.stanford.edu
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 04:01:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Nancy Crawford ncrawford@telis.org
Subject: Source for Maps?

Does anyone know where we can get good, current maps of the Banat? Which maps have the most detail? Do you have the address/e-mail address of the company? So many of us need a lot of detail on maps because our "Ancestral Villages" were so small.

Thanks...
Nancy Crawford
ncrawford@telis.org
searching: FELLENZ / FISCHTINGER / KLEIN / TACHS / TRAVNIK in Banat
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 11:53:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Steve smack@ma.ultranet.com

I have purchased 1:200000 maps from Genealogy Unlimited. They are able to supply both modern maps and maps from a late 19th century survey. The old maps took about 2 months to obtain as they are special ordered from Austria. The maps are of sufficient detail to show most small villages. If you call the company they will send you a catalog and a overall map grid so that you can determine what map to order (800) 666-4363). I found the company very helpful.

They also have the more detailed 1:75000 maps. I have not ordered any of these yet, but intend to soon. For these you need to know a precise latitude and longitude of the area your looking for.

Genealogy Unlimited has a WWW page at:

http://www.itsnet.com/home/genun/public_html/

Hope this helps

Steve
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:46:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: mcdaniel@hoover.stanford.edu (gordon mcdaniel)

I have made copies of several sheets of 1:75,000 scale maps for Torontal and Temes counties; these are not complete, however. Coverage is best for Torontal county. For anyone in the group who would like such a map showing the area(s) of their interest, I'll be happy to make a copy at cost.

Some FHCs have a microfiche map of the Austro-Hungarian Empire which *is* complete. Check first to see if your local FHC has it. The Oakland FHC that I use has the set, and, again, I would be happy to make copies at cost.

Gordon
mcdaniel@hoover.stanford.edu
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 08:41:49 -0700
From: heli@netcom.com (Rick Heli)

Gazetteers (which are geographic indexes/locator books) for the Habsburg Empire are microfilmed and available through the FHL. Search under the Hungary, Austria, Yugoslavia, and Romania sections of the Europe Locality Catalogue.

The maps showing the Danube basin with German village names in italics which are reproduced in John Michels' book The Banat Germans is reportedly from a set of 12 maps published in a book titled: Donauschwaebisches Ortsnamenbuch by Isabelia Regeny and Anton Scherer (1987, second edition) possibly available from: Haus der Donauschwaben z.Hd. Herrn Jakob Dinges, Goldmuehlestrasse 30, D-71065 Sindelfingen,
Germany.

Another important source of maps circa 1890: Scale: 1:200,000 request index of "Generalkarte von Mitteleuropa" Bundesamt fuer Eich und Vermessungswesen (Landesaufnahme) Krotenhallergasse 3 1080 Vienna Austria

1:100,000 scale maps are available from: National Archives Cartographic and Architectural Branch Washington, D.C. 20408. A series of maps for Yugoslavia was made in 1943 for the Army Map Service Send a copy of a modern map showing the location you are interested in to help the Archives staff identify the desired map.

1:200,000 scale maps of middle Europe, which include all of the Banat, area available (June, 1994 catalogue) from Genealogy Unlimited, Inc. Call 1-801-226-8971 and ask for a Genealogical Supply Catalogue.

The FHL has an excellent series of 1:75,000 maps of Austria-Hungary circa 1890 on microfilm (microfilm readers/copiers are generally available); by Oesterreich Militargeographisches Institut 1879-1928 FHL microfilm number 1045395 (also available on a large series of microfiche)

Check your library for the Historical Atlas of East Central Europe by Paul Robert Magocsi, University of Washington Press, 1993, 218 pages. ISBN #0-295-97445-1.

Two sources for German maps:

German National Tourist Office
122 E. 42nd St.
Chanin Bldg., 52nd Floor
NEW YORK NY 10168-0072

German Information Center
950 Third Ave., 24th floor
NEW YORK NY 10022

Two sources for maps of Romania:

Carpati Internationl. Inc.
152 Madison Ave
NY, NY 10016-5424
212 447 1534

Romanian National Tourist Office
342 Madison Ave
NY, NY 10173-0002
212 697 6971 (Attn: Alb Simion)

For on-line maps, see the FEEFHS and University of Texas home pages described in above (see 4.4 FindWeb).
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Date: Wed, 26 Jun 1996 16:31:46 -0400
From: "Erich E. Scholz" 106113.1270@compuserve.com
Subject: Names for Temesvar

Michael, I hate to correct you, but Temeschburg NEVER was the name, Banat Germans used for the Banat capital.

Temeschburg only was the name used officially in Germany, when Banat Germans emigrated to Germany and were asked, where they came from. Many Banat Germans never heard the name TEMESCHBURG until they arrived in Germany.

Banat Germans used the name TEMESVAR or TEMESWAR (and struggled a lot for which the right spelling would be!). "Neue Banater Zeitung" (German Newspaper printed in Temeswar) used TEMESWAR, "Neuer Weg" (German newspaper printed in Bucharest) used TEMESVAR.

In Austro-Hungarian times, the name used in Vienna also was TEMESWAR / TEMESVAR.

In Hungarian the name of Temeswar was TEMESVÀR with an accent on the A.

I should know all these. I was born in Temeswar and lived 30 years there.

Erich

Erich Scholz, Germany