Unknown Cloth

[Note: It is amazing how many messages this subject generated before anyone ever saw a picture of the "Unknown Cloth" You can check it out at
www.banaters.com/banat/picqry1.asp?category=clo001]

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Subject: [BANAT-L] Unknown cloth
From: "Don Mingesz"
Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 14:57:33 -0600

Hopefully, someone on the list can tell me what this is!

A niece of mine found a cloth made by my mother, who was born and raised in Boemish-Weisen, Austria in 1892. The cloth is white with red stitch work. It is about 13 x 20 inches. A middle section has some crochet work across it. One corner of the stitch work is a figure of a knife and fork, another a pitcher and bowl. My mother's initials are between them. It is not a traditional sampler in that there is no other lettering. Near each of the four corners there is a thread reinforced buttonhole.

Any ideas?

Don Mingesz
Lombard, IL

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Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Unknown cloth
From: "Linda Wright"
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 07:39:13 -0500

Hello All,
My mother also has this cloth. Hers was from her grandmother (b:1861) and the red stitching spelled out her grandmothers name, Elizabetha. My mother has told me that she thinks it was used in the kitchen (maybe that is why yours has a fork, knife, and pitcher) She wasn't sure but thinks that it was attached or draped over a towel rack and used to dry or wipe off your hands during cooking. Don't know is this is true, only what I have been told by my mother.
Regards,
Linda

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Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Unknown cloth
From: "Don Mingesz"
Date: Sat, 12 Aug 2000 08:50:37 -0600

Thanks for the input, Linda.

I doubt that it is a towel of any sort. The button holes in the corners and the amount of stitching seem to rule that out. Also, I don't think that I mentioned before that the cloth is folded over and stitched to make "ribbing" across the cloth in several places. A decorative touch.

Don

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Subject: [BANAT-L] Unknown cloth
From: "Don Mingesz"
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 2000 14:01:01 -0600

A hearty and appreciative "Thank You" to all who helped to identify the cloth sewn by my mother! After sorting through the many considerations you sent me, I now believe it was a child's sewing work piece which may have been used in other ways. (Don't we all make use of our childrens' and grand childrens' art work?) Some of the potential uses seem to be: a wall hanging, a chair back cover, a table mat, and a dress decoration.

Whatever the use, it has now become a greater family treasure because of your helpful and kind ideas.

Don Mingesz
Lombard, IL

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Subject: [BANAT-L] Unknown cloth info
From: "Don Mingesz"
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:08:55 -0600

Hello, and thanks for all of the great comments on the possible uses of the cloth.

Steve Herold was kind enough to post an image of the cloth on his web site. As he said: "I must say that looking at the photo after making comments about the possible use of it reminds me of the story of the blind men and the elephant. Certainly isn't quite what I had it mind." Perhaps the image will give someone a new idea. You can view it at:

http://www.banaters.com/doncloth.html

I'd appreciate your comments!

Don

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Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] Unknown cloth info
From: lorraine campbell
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 09:50:53 -0700 (PDT)

Hello Don & All,

This is interesting. Here's yet another thought. Don, since your Mom stitched the cloth circa 1905, she must have been quite young. The various needlework skills employed (crocheting, embroidering, scalloping, etc.) could have been a Sampler of skills attained. Perhaps it originally was used as a small table
runner--The utensils may signify substanance, the floral design--nature & beauty. Perhaps the buttonholes were added later-maybe fastened to a pillow used for display purposes. Then again, maybe it was also used in several ways.
They were very inventive. Perhaps this could lead to photos of our relatives'
handiwork--wonder if Banat women produced similar patterns in their crochet work, or if different villages were noted for varying designs, etc.
Best Wishes in your Quest,
Lorraine Campbell

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Subject: [BANAT-L] cloth
From: "Wilhelm P. Kemendics"
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 2000 19:04:20 +0200

In some regions of Europe even today some ladies have apiece of embroidered cloth that they wear with their traditional clothes. This is usually only worn on special occasions and varied from area to area. This cloth can be buttoned ontu the front of the upper part of whatever they wear beneath. Sometimes they have also some pearls or coins stitched to it.

Wilhelm

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Subject: [BANAT-L]Fw: Re:Don Mingesz Cloth made by mother
From: "sammy/jody love"
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 2000 15:36:32 -0400

I have been doing a little surfing the web regarding Wilhelm's mystery cloth. I came across a great site "The Old Lace & Linen Shop" & emailed the owner the picture of the cloth for her examination. Below my message is her email she sent me with what she had to say, sounds good to me. You can check out her site at: http://www.antiquelinen.com
Hope this helps, Jody in Ga

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anna Mac Phail"
To: "sammy/jody love" ;

Sent: Tuesday, August 15, 2000 10:01 AM
Subject: Re:Don Mingesz Cloth made by mother

Hello,
Re your linen, the fabric and the embroidery is certainly typical of 19th century European..the insertion is needlelace not crochet. I have seen similar items that were table mats to put a hot dish onto. The base was hard thick cardboard or board covered in linen with corresponding buttons on each corner, the ornate top would have been buttoned on and easily removed to be laundered. I have had round place mats similar to this so I assume this was what your linen was used for. I hope this helps.
Regards
Anna

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Subject: [BANAT-L] unknown cloth
From: "Gert Fresenburg"
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 07:50:31 -0500

Listers,
I went to the annual Kirshweihfest yesterday and I took a copy of the unknown cloth with me to see if any of the ladies could tell me what it was used for. I approached the ladies choir before the mass and about 8 of them said that this was a child's piece of needlework. One lady has her mother's piece of needlework. It was required of them as a child to learn all these various stitches in class. I questioned the four buttonholes on each corner. They said they had to learn how to do the buttonholes also. This makes a lot of sense. I hope this solves the mystery of the unknown cloth. This is very interesting. The ladies were so happy to talk to me about the cloth. It brought back a lot of memories for them. I had to get back to my seat because mass was starting.
Gert
P.S. Want to mention that my dad whitewashed our basement walls in the Soulard area when I was a child. It was mainly to make it look nice and clean. Our basement and the floor was as clean as the house upstairs.

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Subject: [BANAT-L] unknown cloth
From: "Gert Fresenburg"
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 2000 09:17:25 -0500

Just want to add a few more words to the unknown cloth.
I think the listers can understand why most of the German-Hungarians and other Banat villagers could and still do all the beautiful hand work. I learned this in grade school at a very young age. I still do needle work and crocheting. I think it is becoming a lost art. There is a big demand for it now. Believe it not. It is the same for quilting. More and more younger people are getting into quilts.
Gert

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Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] unknown cloth
From: rosschmidt
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 2000 16:51:53 -0400

Hello All!
Just another thought regarding this mystery cloth: I too did some of them in my primary school years, including the buttonholes in the corners, which were needed for this cloth to be hang up as a splash guard behind the sink or the stove.
Rosina

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Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] unknown cloth
From: "Alex Leeb"
Date: Tue, 29 Aug 2000 14:45:11 -0600

After viewing the cloth on the Web Page, we can tell it was a work piece of a person learning different kind of stitching, etc. Such work was performed by daughters, grandmothers and sometimes mothers if time permitting. I know my place is not in the kitchen, grandmother always said, "a man's place is in the field and a woman's place is in the kitchen." (how times have changed).

My question is, having done such a professional job on such a nice cloth, can any of you ladies explain to me, why was it hung on the wall behind a stove or a wash basin. With such beautiful proverbs on it, why not in the open so it could be noticed? Those were the good old days.

Alex.

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Subject: Re: [BANAT-L] unknown cloth
From: BLMay
Date: Thu, 31 Aug 2000 18:13:13 EDT

Alex, I can sure tell you why the handwork on the cloth might of been put in a place where harm could come of it. The answer is that, in generations past, handwork wasn't always considered an art form. We learned it because we "had to do that to get married", and God forbid we shouldn't be marketable.

I can remember that each of my aunts had a "favorite" needlework. I found this to be true in my husbands German family as well. At age 5 I was given a crochet hook and heard this phrase for the first time. You must learn this before you can get married. It took me quite a while to get used to feel of a needle in my hands but a year or two later I could do very simple crochet and started to learn to read patters but most often did things by sight.

Then came the knitting. Oh my goodness, they had two ways to do that. Aunt Anna nearly shot me before I could get used to the "American" way but grandma showed me the "European" way. I was told this was America so guess which way seemed to win. Then came the embroidery and the many forms of that. By the time I was a teenager I could get married. The threats quit coming and I had, at least, learned a little of everyones favorite form of needlework. I used to thing this was going to be the biggest waste of time in my life until my health proved to be a little out of whack and I needed, at times, to sit and be still. What a blessing that needlework was. I could even teach it to friends.

As a young mother I again needed to find quiet time and again found my needlework and the serious study of it as an art form to be a true blessing. My grandmother died when I was 14. Wouldn't she have been surprised to see the extent to which I could now use the threads. What she didn't tell me was that it was addictive. It wasn't enough just to do it well it had to be perfect. I think that's an ancestral trait. My husbands aunts had so many interesting patterns to teach etc. Well, once my children were in school I needed to find a little extra to do with my time. Again, the blessings continued and I began teaching embroidery and knitting in a local store only now I was free to use the European method for knitting. All seemed fine until I began searching really unusual threads and techniques and studying the antique forms of handwork. I found myself ordering from Europe and before too long became a source for the unsual to several friends and then the president of a needlework guild. It wasn't until I was around other ladies with similar passions that I realized that, even if I couldn't pick up a brush and paint anything that looked good, my needlework was truly an art.

The blessings ended when, forced by the number of ladies asking me to order for them, I opened a store. My store survived for 12 years until the economy in our area got a little bumpy and a lot of women went to work. In today's world, needlework is looked upon by most folks as an old ladies hobby. Something to occupy the hands while the brain goes away. Isn't that SAD? I just love touching thread and fabric and creating things that can be seen daily by my family. The fact is, however, that very few people consider this my "art". Poor folks don't know what kind of creativity goes into any of these.

I've gone on and on enough and will probably hear from someone who is upset with me but to all the ladies who have gotten this far in my letter, if you are a "stitcher" bless you. Teach it to your children and grandchildren! Its still very important for a woman to know how to sit still and contemplate her words before blurting them out. Besides that, it makes our husbands feel better. Even more, make things for your family that they will keep and treasure because it is from those special things that your great great grandchildren will get to know you.

Did you know that in many quilts, especially the Amish ones, there is a corner where the artist has put a history and her name on paper and has quilted into the corner for future generations?

Keep on stitchin.

Barb